Why is World War 2 considered to start with the invasion of Poland?Shouldn't the start of the war be the start of the Sino-Japanese war in 1937?After all the Sino-Japanese war is considered to be part of WW2, it is the opening of the pacific theatre, the casualities form a large part of the WW2 total and it lasted for the duration of the war.
>>16640259The Sino-Japanese War was functionally completely separate from the war in Europe before Pearl Harbor
>>16640272This, and it also remained isolated from the pacific war till the Soviets joined in in the last month
>>16640259as the other guy said, despite it being a sign of things to come it was mostly self contained to china, it only got merged into World War 2 when Japan entered the fray and thus the allied powers really started to back up the chinese
>>16640277It was not isolated. The allies worked with china very heavily. You just dont know anything about it. Allied actions on the mainland directly affected japanese operations in the pacific.>>16640259Because normalfag culture, pop knowledge, and court twistorians are all extremely anglocentric. So only things that directly affect britain, from the british perspective, and OK’d by british leaders are considered truth.It’s fagged up anglokike twistory. WWII definitely started in the pacific.
>>16640298It received 1/20th of what the Soviets received and was largely irrelevant. China had already stalled the Japs when the US started to finally fight back
>>16640259Sino-Japanese War was a war between two countries in one region of the planet. It eventually kicks off the Pacific War, a struggle involving global combatants, but even that required the Japanese move into French Indochina, which only happened because of the German defeat of France. Events in Europe (Anti-Comintern Pact,Molotov-Ribbentrop, Tripartite Axis, Barbarossa) heavily influenced the course of events in Asia without a symmetric influence on Europe until after the general European war was an accomplished fact. Meanwhile, by September 1939, the British and French empires were committed to war, making it inherently a globe-spanning conflict. Had they stayed out of it, but later found themselves at war, the Polish-German War would be seen as a precursor conflict to the World War, much like the Spanish Civil War, the Second Sino-Japanese War, and the Soviet-Japanese Border War.
>>16640301Doesnt matter. Allied operations were planned theatre-wide and in conjunction with the chinese.
>>16640259WW2 as a narrative tool is concentrated on Germany. Ultimately however this is a matter of classification, therefore what's relevant is the ability of WW2 as a phrase to communicate to you the particular part of world history rather than being perfectly accurate, therefore it's irrelevant.
>>16640259Because the Sino-Japanese was could've easily continued without snowballing into a greater conflict in Europe.It's like asking why the various unrelated wars happening in Latin America during the 1940s aren't considered part of WWII.
no
Because Americans were selling oil and all kinds of shit to help Japan until Pearl Harbor, counting 1931 in wouldve made America look like a dumb ass.
>>16640298>The allies worked with china very heavily.Only starting 1941. No one gave a shit in 1937.
Japanese aggression in China begins in 1928, not 1937. So you can play the game with the dates a lot, but it won’t help an understanding of the war. Frankly the surest “start date” for WWII is 1941, which brings into the war proper Russia, Japan, and the USA. Everything until Pearl Harbour can be considered prelude
>>16642409Wasn't the entire reason for Pwarl Harbor because America trade embargoed Japan, essentially putting a timer on how long they can operate their army without getting the resources from European colonies?
>>16640259I agree that 37 is a better start date for WW2, but the specific date is arbitrary. You could easily make a claim that the Italian invasions of Ethiopia should be considered the beginning for WW2 in 35. And then you go back even further to the plethora of conflicts and civil wars in the interwar years until WW2 starts with the fall of the Qing dynasty.
>>16640504Proof? Besides the minor bong ones in India, the Americans or Soviets sought no conjuction with the Chinamen who mind you were broken up into a dozen factions. The Americans were destroying the jap navy which required 0 help from the chinese, Soviets also didnt ask for Mao’s help when invading Manchuria and instead relied on Soviet backed partisans that were on their bankroll since the 20’s
>>16640259Because it didnt become a "world" war until France and Britain joined the game because they had the empires.If you're going to argue anything, you could at least argue that WW2 didnt start on the 1st of September, but on the 3rd of September.
>>166402591914 was the real start date for WW “2”. There was one World War that began in 1914 and didn’t end until 1991.
>>16642687Actually WW1 begins with the Balkan wars starting in 1912.
>>16642817It actually started with napoleon, fucking manlets, when will they learn
>>16642831You can't have Napoleon without Charlemagne.
>>16642837All because of this fucking guy and having to see what was on land because he was such a hungry lardass
>>16642687We should also put the end date not at the end of Soviet Russia but at the end of the Yugoslav wars in 2001.
>>16642687If we are gonna play this game the Great Conflict is still ongoing (CCP-Taiwan war: not resolved. Korean War: not resolved. Russia-West conflict: not resolved.) unfortunately only nuclear annihilation can untie this Gordion knot. So the world will stay as a frozen war for all times. It’s actually quite depressing
>>16640259If anything, WWII didn’t really start until June 22, 1941 to December 7, 1941. Before the USSR and USA got involved, it wasn’t truly a global conflict
>>16642817>>16642831*1853/1898-1900
>>16642926>Before the USSR and USA got involved, it wasn’t truly a global conflictWhy not?So 2 million Indians being moblizedA main frontline in AfricaBritish and German ships clash outside the coast of Brazil A third of North American actively participating in the warResources from Indeonesia and Malaysia being extracted to the war effort which has an immediate impact on the local populationAustralian and New Zeeland actively participating in the warSoldiers from the far east of Siberia, soldiers from the central Asian steppes fighting in Poland and FinlandAll of this, isnt considered a world war?
>>16640259Western Centric view that makes it easy to blame Germany.>when did it begin>When heckin Germany inavadedThis completely ignores Italy vs Ethiopia and China vs Japan, it also skirts around the issue of the unstable peace between the USSR and Poland after Poland invaded Ukraine and Belarus two territorial losses the USSR wanted to ameliorate.>>16640272>>16640277>it was separate because it was far awayand Poland was far away from England and France therefore WWII begins with France invading Germany.>b-b-but theyre in Europeso is Italy, so did the war begin with the Italian invasion of Ethiopia?>>16640294>it only began when japan entered the frayJapan entered the fray in 1937.>>16642416no? The West had send attaches and arms to China
>>16643272>a frontline in the Med basinthis is not the world>a frontline in Western Europethis is not the world>b-b-but foreign people were mobilized all over the worldThen America vs Afghanistan was a world war as the US had troops across the world.
>>1664025970,000 Japanese girls were prostituted to allied soldiers in the recreation and amusement association after 1945.Over 100,000 Japanese girls were prostituted as karayuki-san to Han Chinese men and western men in the Meiji and Taisho periods to raise money to industrialize Japan and spy in other countries.https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/14238771/#q14241373And before that tons of Japanese girls were given to foreign Han Chinese merchants and Portuguese men and Dutch men during Sengoku Jidai and Tokugawa (Edo) as well.https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/12244603/#q12249572Japanese Karayuki-san prostitutes in French Indochina refused Annamese (Vietnamese) men as clients and only slept with French soldiers and Han Chinese men.https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9505389/#q9508255https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9505389/#q9525108https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/14238771/#q14241373Japanese teenage girls whose families were killed in the firebombings and roasted alive and atomic bombing in Hiroshoma were forced into prostitution in the Recreation and Amusement association.Over 100,000 Japanese men, women and children were roasted to death in one day in Tokyo during the firebombings in Operation MeetinghouseHirohito the cuck watched his capital and palace burn down and his women, both Japanese commoners and his own relatives get fucked by foreign men.America then paid Japanese to experiment on Japanese children.
>>16643496Tons of Japanese girls and women were left behind in Manchukuo in 1945 and became wives of Chinese men,they are called Zanryu-Fujin.Japanese teenage girls were used as comfort women by US soldiers after their surrender.The US government funded Japanese unit 731 scientists to conduct biological germ tests on Japanese civilians after World War II, including Japanese children.https://theguardian.newspapers.com/clip/122763034/postwar-japan-us-backed-japans-germ/From 1983 UK Observer scoop - "Experiments on human guinea pigs by members of the Japanese germ warfare unit continued in Japan after the war with the help of secret funding from the American Government"Multiple Japanese including a child died from the experiments and another committed suicide after being used as a guinea pig."The ostensible purpose of the work was to develop vaccines to fight disease... The money for the experiments came from the American 406th Division, part of the occupation forces... A number of Japanese doctors associated with Unit 731 were signed up as advisers....""To test treatments for scrub typhus, the team instructed researchers to infect patients in a mental hospital in Niigata." Between 1953-1956, 118 patients were infected. Nine died, "another committed suicide rather than continue as a human guinea pig.""An investigation by the Tokyo Justice Ministry concluded that no permission from relatives had been obtained for the experiments, and there was no question of the tests being a form of treatment to 'cure' the patients, as the hospital claimed."Finally, I want to give credit to British researchers, Peter Williams and David Wallace. Their 1989 book, "Unit 731: The Japanese Army's Secret of Secrets," referenced the Observer article. The US printing of the book deleted the chapter the reference was in, so make sure you use the British edition by Hodder & Stoughton if you want to follow up this reference.
>>16643326>this is not the worldYes that's literally a frontline on 3 seperate continents. A frontline in Ethiopia, a frontline in the Canadian coast, a frontline from the British isles to the Greek Mediteranian.>Then America vs Afghanistan was a world war as the US had troops across the world.Now you're just arguing just to argue.We could completely bloat this discussion by asking why the Napoleonic war wasnt a world war, why the seven years war wasnt a world war, why the war for the Spanish succession wasnt a world war.And why World War 1 was a world war when 99% of the fighting took place in Europe and the near east.
>>16643323200 miles is closer than 2000 miles. Chinks really are retarded
>>16642603Oh man. You’re an idiot with no knowledge of history whatsoever. Trying starting your education wikipedia and then building up from there.
>>16642817You’re a braindead idiot. The Balkan Wars were direct extensions of the Italo-Turkish War. Fucking retard.Never post here again.
>>16643740Dont forget to tell him that the Italo-Turkish war was started because of the treaties made after the Russo-Turkish war 77-78.
>>16643734>Trying starting ESL tard lol, too much work to google translate your garbage?
>>16643326You’re 100% right.>>16643551>>16643272>why World War 1 was a world war when 99% of the fighting took place in Europe and the near east.But You’re right also, actually. WWI’s fighting largely took place between a very narrow set of longitude lines- Isfahan west to Flanders, and from Flanders south to Mozambique. The fighting in the Pacific hardly even happened- most of it was peaceful sieges and surrenders with hardly any deaths. Why was it ever considered a worldwide war?>It’s because of the sheer magnititde of the draftThat’s the real reason.Everybody and their mother had been drafted into the fight. Just about every man in France had served in the army. It was a “world” war in the sense that your whole fucking world was literally in the fight. Your mom and dad were being bombed by futurist steampunk zeppelins and airplanes. Your wife was filling your mags up in a factory. Your brother and your son fucking died. Your dog starved. Your neighbor was in a wheelchair and you were rotting in a trench waiting for your turn. And This was the case for EVERYONE.In wars past, they were not directly affecting so many people. Wars involved far fewer people. In the Middle Ages, battles like Manzikert could include 10,000 people on each side and that was it. The “world” wasn’t directly affected like WWI affected it. Wars like the 7 years war, Napoleonic Wars, and Spanish-English Wars of the 16th century were fought all around the world. This wasn’t uncommon. The geographic scope of WWI was really no different from these other wars going back centuries. A naval battle off the coast of the Falkans or Canada- so what? Napoleons fleet fought the Royal Navy in the Caribbean, and once upon a time the British fleet fought the Spanish fleet in the Philippines.The difference was the sheer number of people brought into the army, and the sheer number of people dorectly impacted by the war. Forced labor of civilians, bombing of civilians, etc.
>>16643781Typical chinkcel malding
>>16643782Every Japanese operation was blunted with US-supplies Chinese troops, US aircraft taking off from bases in China against the Japanese. I am not chinese you fucktard idiot. I am just simply based.
>>16643851Prove either of those claims and how they were done in heavy numbers as initially claimed
>>16643883Go look it up faggot dumb cuck lmao>number originally claimedQuote your claim that he claimed anything about muh numbers you faggot kike.
>>16643907Here >>16640298 , and in many other times. Not everyone is some dumb turdie like you
>>16643773For the most part, it was known as the "Great War/Grande Guerre" or even just the "European War" while it was being fought. Google ngram shows "world war" overtaking "European war" in 1917, perhaps not coincidentally when the US joined in. Even prior to that, the various far-flung parts of empires contributed millions of soldiers and participated on a scale unprecedented in past wars between empires. It is today primarily known as the "First World War" because of the Second World War. >they were not directly affecting so many peopleFranco-Prussian War featured conscription and over a million in uniform.Russo-Turkish War (1878) featured hundreds of thousands of combatants, as did the Russo-Japanese War and the Balkan Wars. The scale is different, but the large-scale industrial war was already a known quantity.
>>16643909>I’m not some dumb turdie!>doesn’t know ANYTHING about the war in asiaLol. Cucked and btfo
>>16643933(me) French corpus is clearly dominated by 'Great War'.
>>16640259Nigger, you can't have a World War without Europe being involved.Burgers v nips would have been a backwater brawl.
>>16643933>the various far-flung parts of empires contributed millions of soldiers and participated on a scale unprecedented in past wars between empires.Because that followed the same pattern of “mass recruitment” and deployment.>Franco-Prussian War featured conscription and over a million in uniform.Hardly anything compared to WWI. Compare the number of frontline divisions to the western front of WWI.>Russo-Turkish War (1878) featured hundreds of thousands of combatantsAnother hardly anything.>as did the Russo-Japanese War and the Balkan WarsAll these were industrial wars on the scale of WWI. Bulgaria deployed the same number of divisions in WWI as it did in the Balkan Wars. Russia could not deploy more troops to the orient, likewise Japan was limited by port capacity in Manchuria/Korea. Otherwise the soldiers’ numbers would have built up to European numbers.
>>16643943>eurocentricism
>>16643946As God intended.
>>16643940>Grande Mondiale doesnt catch on until 1960Mainland France had hardly any casualties from combat in WWII compared to WWI. That may be why. 7 outnof the 8 “French” divisions deployed against the Axis in latter WWII were niggers and ragheads. Only 1 division was all white (created at the behest of the US to segregate French forces for le liberation meme).
>>16643940(me)The Germans switched to "world war" fairly quickly, but even then it seems to be in the Haeckel sense >There is no doubt that the course and character of the feared “European war,” which directly or indirectly draws all other countries into the conflict, and so will become the first world war in the full sense of the word, will surpass all previous wars.
>>16640259Don’t forget that the Soviet Union was also fighting intermittently in China against various factions and even against Japan throughout the 1930s.
>>16643773>>16643933So now its not a matter of geography anymore, but in terms of the level of humans being mobilized for the war effort.In that regard then 1939 still makes more sense than 1937 because again, once it involved Britain and France, hundreds of millions were involved, and Germany equally had to accelerate its committment to match the scale.So world war is decided by the virtue of the scale as millions upon millions were involved.>>16643933That's exactly right, it's called chronology and periodization, basically a reference point, and with that you need to give and take that will utlimately be decided by congruity hence why wars are given a particular starting date that doesnt necessarily reflect everyone specifically involved.We use this chronology to seperate and define history often by using very universal terms. "World War" pretty much equals a "Great War" because it emphasize on the magnitude. In Russia, ww2 is simply known as The Great Patriotic War so there is a matter of culture and languages too that becomes defining in historigraphy If you want to argue periodization, then you could put all of history into question. For example why do we call the period from 1337 the "hundred years war" when it was a series of wars. You may as well call 1701-1815 the "second hundred years war" because it was essentially a series of wars between England and France just as it was in 1337.
>>16642590America embargoed Japan in 1941, a whole decade after sins-Japanese war first started.
>>16643951I limited it to 1950 because otherwise the late 20th century would make it harder to see what was happening between "World War" and "European War". "Guerre mondiale" just means "world war", and so is not specific to World War I, meaning that other conflicts/the generic concept are getting counted, partially explaining why it surges so much after 1950. Then the data set probably includes English/German/other books in translation, where they kept the world war phrasing. Checking for case-sensitivity (in violation of French grammar rules) shows the same pattern, of Great War falling off after World War II.
>>16643962> its not a matter of geography anymore, but in terms of the level of humans being mobilized for the war effort.It's a combination of intensity over geography. It's the difference between "During the Seven Years' War, a few tens of thousands fought in European colonies in the Americas" and "During World War I, Australia and New Zealand between them provided over half a million men, Canada provided over 600,000, India over a million" and so on. These are non-European countries/regions that were in it from the start as meaningful combatants. >In Russia, ww2 is simply known as The Great Patriotic War The Great Patriotic War is specifically the Soviet theatre of World War II (Bтopaя Mиpoвaя Boйнa), beginning 1941. Other than that, they still have the Second World War beginning in 1939. Doing a quick scroll of baidu results for 第二次世界大战, they still generally have the starting date as 1939.
>>16643995It about the number of countries. Like, two countries, no matter how big, do not the World War make. But, with Europe in, you have dozens of them warring.
>>16643962>So world war is decided by the virtue of the scale as millions upon millions were involved.Anon… do you know how many people were involved in the Sino-Japanese War? If you include the Soviet Union, you come down to an enormpus fogure of hundreds of millions. Although China by itself fits that definition neatly.>1939 still makes more sense than 1937 because again, once it involved Britain and France, hundreds of millions were involvedAlmost entirely only due to British India.
>>16644051It depends on what you mean by country. If you count the Warlords in China, the various puppet governments of Japan and the USSR, and the self-declared independents like Tibet ir Xinxang(sp?), you get a large number of “countries” too.
>>16643939You got owned turdie, take the L and move on
>>16640259Euro-centrism.
>>16644241>cant be bothered to learn any historyCope & seethe kike. Apologize.
>>16644218It is implied that those countries must be from different continents. The more the better.
>>16643323>no? The West had send attaches and arms to ChinaAnd that means what? European countries sent attaches to both sides during the ACW and America sent attaches to Europe in their wars. And prior to 1938 Germany was assisting China, not Japan. There's no logical way to jerryrig a fit where the Sino-Japanese War was a part of WW2 before 1941.
>>16644395The German Polish was not the start either then. Nor was the Phony War.>>16643962No it was never determined by numbers mobilized because if it was then China vs Japan has everyone beat hands down seeing the mobilization of more people than the commonwealth and US combined. Britain was a globe spanning empire like America is today. The US vs Afghanistan features soldiers from Europe, Oceania, Asia, and North America. Arguably more nationalities took part in the Afghanistan war than in 1939 WWII. This is obviously not a world war. You only want it to be 1939 so you can say Germany caused it. Germany ultimately only declared on one country “unprovoked”.
That wouldn't serve the narrative of German guilt.
>>16640259Its separate but at the same time I agree in some aspects, only it only really became a World War once the theaters combined. The whole world was a war in some aspect by 1939 with Europe becoming a war zone.
>>16642576That's stupide.Then WWI is not a World War according to your classification. As someone said before, France and Great Britain implication bringing in their colonial empire is enough to make a local war a world war. Pearl Harbor is just a new phase making it even larger
>>16642687Cold War started in 1947 when european countries had to choose a camp by accepting or not the Marshall Plan. WW and Cold War are separate conflicts. Also, the consequences of a previous war kickstarting a new war is not enough to make it the same entitie. That's why we add numbers
>>16642409>>16643964>>16644395>In 1940, a year before Pearl Harbor, Washington developed an ambitious plan for a sneak attack on Japanese bases. The U.S. would send in American pilots and planes wearing Chinese uniforms and markings. These were the Flying Tigers. They would bomb Japan. The U.S. Army (which was in charge of the Air Corps) was opposed to this scheme and raised obstacles, noting that being able to reach Japan depended on the weak Chinese National Revolutionary Army being able to build and protect airfields and bases close enough to Japan, which they doubted he could do. The generals had little confidence in the scheme. Ignoring the Army's advice, American civilian leaders were captivated by the idea of China attacking Japan by air. Enthusiastic approval came Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau Jr. and President Franklin D. Roosevelt himself. However, the proposed attack never took place: The Chinese had not built and secured any runways or bases close enough to reach Japan, just as the Army had warned. The American bombers and crews were delayed and finally arrived shortly after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. The bombers were used for the war in Burma against Japan, as they lacked the range to reach Japan from secure bases in China.Make you really think
>>16646078>France and Great Britain implication bringing in their colonial empire is enough to make a local war a world warKinda dumb tho. The fighting would have all stayed in Europe if it was just 1940 GB/FR vs GER. Seems very anglocentric to call it a “world war” just because they were involved in it. By that measure the Anglo-Somali wars were “World Wars” because Indians and blacks were drafted to deal with the Somalis.
>>16645425>>16644468This. That’s the real reason some anons are so vehemently defending the start date. It’s anglocentricism but it’s also germanophobia and appeal-to-authority bootlicking.
>>16644395>European countries sent attaches to both sides during the ACWOkay, please name the European group that trained and armed the Union or Confederacy.>and America sent attaches to Europe in their warsThey neither armed nor trained the Europeans.Westerners did both things in China starting in 1937.Furthermore, this narrative ifnores the Soviet involvement in China for its own purposes and against Japan. From the Chinese perspective, this was already a global conflict.
>>16644392It’s still very Anglocentric, and ignores all the smaller conflicts where the British imperial forces from around the globe fought in.
>>16646108>>16646211Americans didn't embargo Japan or send any help to China until Japan invaded French Indochina in 1940 which triggered the embargo.
Nobody really cares about bugs killing bugs
>>16646500They actually did. They were supplying china, providing it with weapons, fuel, and aircraft, as well as launching their own aircraft, the “flying tigers”, and allowing troops to gain experience fighting in chinese armies. One of the reasons Japan invaded northern Indochina was to choke off this supply coming into China.Also, Japan was under some form of minor embargos prior to 1940. The final embargo was an embargo only in name, and functioned more as a naval blockade of Japan. Neutral south American countries were not allowed to trade with Japan under any circumstances. Nor was the Netherlands East Indies.
>>16640259Sino-Japanese War:>Heh, what's the deal with THESE guys?Pearl Harbor:>Okay, NOW. It's personal. >This. Is when I go BEAST mode.
>>16647203Flying tigers were after the embargo in 1940.US didn't donate anything before 1940, the US sold more to Japan Everything imported through French Indochina was paid for by China and not aid.
>>16647203>>16647209Franklin Roosevelt was dictator warmonger
>>16646108Countries develop war plans against potential enemies (and allies) during peace time even if they have no intention of going to war.It's done for experience, preparation in case a war does break out and to explore strategic and tactical options.
>>16640259Because Japan had no idea what they were doing and didn't want that conflict. Very different from Germany's invasion of Poland.
>>16648811that isnt a warplan its a false flag
>>16644468>>16646199It's scope of combatants X intensity X [great power] status of combatants. The German academic Haeckel seems to have been the first to label the Great War "World War I", doing so in September 1914. His reasoning was >There is no doubt that the course and character of the feared “European war,” which directly or indirectly draws all other countries into the conflict, and so will become the first world war in the full sense of the word, will surpass all previous wars.>So through fault alone the fearful war" has become a universal world war of an extent never before experienced! or now all nations of the earth whether they want to or not will directly or indirectly be made to sufferThe situation in 1914 and 1919 satisfied that reasoning.
>>16646098>Also, the consequences of a previous war kickstarting a new war is not enough to make it the same entitie.Then why are the Hundred Years War and the Thirty Years War considered one entity? The Hundred Years War had long periods of peace between England and France. One of which lasted longer than the period between the First and Second World War.
>>16649091Looks like a war-plan to me.
>>16649181>When you have to reach this hard to call it a world war
>>16647605>reddit spacing>lyingAll so that he can push that sma eold narrative of muh germoney, lmao. These NPCs are mindbroken
>>16648811Sure thing chaim
The answer is because a war between China and Japan does not threaten Jews, and the concerns of the Jews are the axle around which the narrative called "World War 2" rotates.If Jews are not under threat it logically cannot be WW2.
>>16646211>From the Chinese perspective, this was already a global conflict.From their perspective what was happening in 1930s was just continuation of colonization.
>>16649181I am going to presume you mean 1939 not 1919.1939 does not satisfy that reasoning as Haeckel saw Russia, Prussia, France, Great Britain, Austria Hungary, and the Ottomans mobilize all at once.
>>16649298a war-plan is a contingency plan, not a plan of attack, it would be like calling Barbarossa a war-plan.Also even if it was a war-plan it was something they were preparing to act on, thus making it an operation in addition to being a war plan.no matter how you look at it the Americans were in the wrong
>>16648592Agreed he wanted a war, not to mention America policy to Japan. Similar case in WW1 but it was Britain trying to get us to bail them out because they fucking suck ass. >>16647605>>16646500Huh? Nigga its common knowledge we were actively distancing ourselves from Japan and moving towards China with weapon sales, supplies, political support, etc. USA hard provoked attacks from Japan it was only a matter of time with our policies on the region.
>>16640259Unironically eurocentrism. The most common excuse I see is that the war in Asia was merely a regional one whereas the war in Europe was the real World War™. By 1939, there's been the battle for Shanghai, the Yellow River flood and the bombing of Chongqing before the Axis and Allies even BEGIN fighting what is literally referred to as "The Phoney War." It's only after the fall of France that the rest of the world becomes a theater of war for the European powers.>>16648850They very much knew what they were doing. Even Hirohito.
>>16651970Whether China fell or not would not have changed whether the war was won by the US or Soviets. Japan was below Italy tier in the quality of their troops
>>16651970>the war in Europe was the real World WarWorld War I was being called a World War in September 1914, and featured the overwhelming majority of its fighting in Europe and the Middle East/Caucasus. >what is literally referred to as "The Phoney War." There was air and naval action, as well as total mobilization. The scope for achieving anything on the ground was believed to be limited, and so there wasn't intensive land combat. >They very much knew what they were doing. Both the Mukden and Marco Polo Bridge incidents represented unilateral action by local army units, rather than the deliberate decision of the central government. The prolongation and escalation of the China Incident was not desired by Japan, and largely came about because they were incapable of producing a settlement that would be acceptable to the ROC, their own public, and the military, given the ever-increasing costs incurred in the venture.
>>16651980>Japan was below Italy tier in the quality of their troopsThis is a huge myth spread on the internet.
>>16651757The US, Netherlands and UK actively supplied 90% of Japan's war material against China up to 1940, when China defeated Japan at the battle of Kunlun pass which forced Japan to invade French Indochina which triggered the US embargo on Japan.
>>16653407No chaim, this is not what happened and is a bold faced lie. The US organized mass embargoes against various Japanese industries well before 1940. Starting in 1937, actually.
>>16653395Japs were steamrolled by Soviet reserves while elite Soviet formations struggled against budget Italians, the Romanians
>>16652009>World War I was being called a World War in September 1914, and featured the overwhelming majority of its fighting in Europe and the Middle East/Caucasus.Yes, that's because from the very beginning WWI was being fought between imperial powers with possessions on multiple continents. For the war between the European powers in 1939, this only becomes the case after Vichy France's establishment and Italy's entry. >There was air and naval action, as well as total mobilization. The scope for achieving anything on the ground was believed to be limited, and so there wasn't intensive land combat.You had all of that and more transpiring in China, on top of some of the largest land battles of WWII.>Both the Mukden and Marco Polo Bridge incidents represented unilateral action by local army units, rather than the deliberate decision of the central government.What did the "central government" of Japan do when this kind of insubordination happened? Issue apologies to the KMT? Court martial the generals of the Kwantung Army?
>>16653795A poor argument. Those Japanese units whoch fought the Soviets were stripped to the bearest bones, stripped of VIRTUALLY ALL tanks and equipment. The Kwantung Army (and its associated formations) was in practice nothing but a static reserve by August ‘45.>elite Soviet formations struggled against budget ItaliansLaughable claim. Please provide an example of this.
>>16653395>>16654243Japanese troops were slaughtered with spears and machetes in Mindanao. Japanese relied on meth and chemical weapons to fight against opponents with less advanced weapons.
>>16653790Check your own nose. Japan was financed by Jews like Jacob Schiff and Japan came up with the Fugu plan to give Jews control of East Asia's economy.US continued supplying Japan with Iron, oil, engines until 1940.
>>16653407The US embargo of Japan began in the 30s
>>16654384No? And the US began soft diplomatic pressure as early as 1915.
>>16654106>being fought between imperial powers with possessions on multiple continents. Haeckel's usage of the term was that it involved most great powers as combatants, and would function as a vortex drawing more countries in as direct participants, with even the neutrals "directly or indirectly be[ing] made to suffer". Had the UK/France not declared on Germany, but war broke out in 1940 over Benelux or something, the German-Polish War would've been considered a precursor conflict rather than part of the war itself. As it was, within the month, all the European great powers save Italy were conducting military operations, and even the European neutrals were mobilizing hundreds of thousands of men. It immediately forced changes in US government policy, and caused the downfall of the Japanese cabinet and a reformation of Japanese policy vis-a-vis the USSR. Italy would join the ongoing conflict the next year. >You had all of that and more transpiring in China,That was arguing that even the Phoney War was actual great power conflict. Which isn't to say that sustained intense combat inherently means a world war. >What did the "central government" of Japan do when this kind of insubordination happened?Japanese politics was difficult. The central government wasn't in a position to exercise authority over the army, or to find common ground with the ROC for ending the conflict.
>>16640259of course not, the sino jap war is a bunch of gooks killing each other on a very large scale but only once the major euro empires go at it does over half the fucking world get dragged in by proxy
>>16654384This is pretty much cope, moishe. In fact, airplane engines were banmed from being sold to japan, by 1939. Other important things like other airplane parts and tools were banned from being sold to them as well.I’m not sure why you’re gping with “no actually JAPAN os the golem” when we are talking about the worlds most ultimate and well known golem, the US.
>>16654378>the meth cope
>>16654935Japan was at war with China since 1937 Japan set up Manchukuo years before that.US never embargoed them for those.
