/lit/ is for the discussion of literature, specifically books (fiction & non-fiction), short stories, poetry, creative writing, etc. If you want to discuss history, religion, or the humanities, go to /his/. If you want to discuss politics, go to /pol/. Philosophical discussion can go on either /lit/ or /his/, but those discussions of philosophy that take place on /lit/ should be based around specific philosophical works to which posters can refer.Check the wiki, the catalog, and the archive before asking for advice or recommendations, and please refrain from starting new threads for questions that can be answered by a search engine./lit/ is a slow board! Please take the time to read what others have written, and try to make thoughtful, well-written posts of your own. Bump replies are not necessary.Looking for books online? Check here:Guide to #bookzhttps://www.geocities.ws/prissy_90/Media/Texts/BookzHelp19kb.htmBookzzhttp://b-ok.cc/http://libgen.rs/Recommended Literaturehttp://4chanlit.wikia.com/wiki/Recommended_Reading
Are you incapable of making decisions without the guidance of anonymous internet strangers? Open this thread for some recommendations.
DRUGS editionprevious >>23350107 / >>23352659
I sent what could be called a fanmail DM to one of my fav x.com (formerly twitter) writers in a moment of wild abandon after I left my friends at the club & was by myself. and they replied and we started talking. now I've met some girls doing ket and don't want to keep replying to them.wwyd
>>23353439Just fucking ghost, literally walk away from the screen
>>23353445thanks tyler yeah that'd what I've done but I feel weird abt it
>>23353387Based on how much I spend $700K would last me ~2916.6699 years.
to say one reads is as meaningless as saying one eats. what matters is what you eat, what you read
>age>current book>your thoughts on it
>>23353374>shall we just log the ip addresses and link to the data google and the other tech giants already have and share with us>no, that's just what they'll be expecting us to do
>33>Shuggie Bain and Basho's Poems>Shuggie Bain is great. Not aesthetically brilliant, but a good story told extremely well. Basho is living up to his stature as a master of haikus. Gonna give Issa a try soon.
1teh veri hungry captellitergagaga googoo good
>>23353410>four polesYeah this is very present in the shamanism of China as well. Not so much of the truly ancient animist layer visible there but it does come up a bit in the songs of Chu, in the form of culture heroes with bear-transformation powers (interestingly this story also reproduces the Zeus-Selene "death from exposure to the true divine form" mytheme). I would assume the Chinese and Tibetan shamanic traditions are close cousins but I don't think it's been directly established archaeologically. That all sounds really cool though, I should definitely check out Hughes. Also makes me feel a pang of guilt for not having finished reading some of those late Shakespeare plays too, I know Measure for Measure is well-regarded. >>23353446Have you read Wang Wei?
>>23352422>33>Sodomies in ElevenpointGreat book, will finish it tonight. It is an "organic travel diary" where Busi alternates explicit descriptions of his sexual encounters with men, mostly but not only in third world countries, to extremely deep reflections on writing and advices on how to be a good writer. As you go on you realize that most of what he writes about when it comes to sex and travel description can actually be read as him putting in practice or showing what he has been talking about. Pick him up, he's a great author. More of his stuff should be translated, in my opinion.
You DO save local copies of your work, right? You're not a complete idiot, right?
>>23353472BASED googlefuck roasties and/or trannies
Will literature be able to survive zoomer moralfaggotry?
>>23352001>>23352020>don't have any actual cultural grounding>whatever the establishment has decide is "icky" today>no internal logicDon't know how you can believe these things simultaneously. Obviously the things they're puritanical about have a purpose: promoting cultural equity. They bitch about age gaps in relationships because old women want equity. They bitch about minorities not being given special privileges to separate them from whites because they think that kind of petty reversed power will promote equity.
>>23353382I will take this seriously for a minute.Liberalism depends on a strong religious or moral system. If there are no external constraints on behavior, people need strong internal constraints in the form of morality. Otherwise, people will self destruct and society will go with it.I'm not American and I'm neutral on their founding fathers, but they understood this. As one of them have said: "Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."A criticism of liberalism is that it has led to the kind of thinking you are (either joking or not) showing here, which ends up undermining liberalism.
>>23352102>zoomers are more libertarian than past generationsYou have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Shameless hypocrisy while demanding the freedoms you personally want doesn't make you libertarian.
>>23353457They don't want equity, they want the same hierarchies but with different groups on top.
>>23353465Lol, I don't think they thought that deep about it (as usual).One thing to mention (as a Millenial) is that my generation is terrible indeed. We really have destroyed whatever the rich American Boomers didn't.
Hello /lit/chads,This summer I am going to be (re)reading all the dialogues of Plato, in the John M. Cooper complete edition. Because I believe that discussing what you are reading is the best way to understand what you read, I am planning on telling you all about it: maybe we can have a general discussion of Plato’s work?Anyway, within the Cooper edition, I’m starting with the Theaetetus: I’ll read from that point to the end of the book and then read the ones that come before it.For today, let me tell you about Theaetetus142a-143d. The Theaetetus begins oddly. It starts with Eucleides and Terpsion discussing the incoming death of Theaetetus, who is set to die from battle wounds or dysentery. Eucleides then mentions a talk that Theaetetus had with Socrates, not long before the latter’s own death. In fact, we learn at the end of the dialogue (210d) that the events of the Theaetetus take place right before the events of the Euthyphro—which is to say, right before Socrates’ own trial. The dialogue thus begins by drawing a parallel between Theaetetus and Socrates, for both are presented as facing their impending death. What should we make of this?Here are some things this parallel might mean:>It could serve to indicate that Theaetetus and Socrates are beings of the same type, namely genuine philosophers. This is interesting, because the apparent practice of Socrates and Theaetetus is so different: Socrates is engaged primarily with ethical and political questions, while Theaetetus is a mathematician. Is mathematics a branch of philosophy? At 143d, Socrates considers geometry part of philosophy, yet it does not seem that Theodorus, the geometer, is very philosophical…>It could be contrasting the way that Socrates and Theaetetus meet their end: Theaetetus ends his life as a result of battling for Athens, while Socrates’ death is the result of the Athenian state. But the question then becomes what this contrast means.What do you all make of this part of the dialogue?
>>23349871OP, have you read all the dialogues from the old Neoplatonic curriculum? >First Alcibiades>Gorgias>Phaedo>Cratylus>Theaetetus>Sophist>Statesman>Phaedrus>Symposium>Philebus>Timaeus>ParmenidesComment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>23352916>I went down a bit of a rabbit hole with theurgy in the Neoplatonic traditionCan you describe more about your specific practice, and what it is mainly about? I am unfamiliar with it, and you would probably explain it better than an article online. I was quite devoted to Neigong, or internal alchemy, for a bit, but stopped once I reached a point where it was dangerous as I had developed too much yang qi. I still practice, but sparingly now just to promote health. I agree that writing and language can't fully describe any philosophy, and it must be lived and experienced. This is why I asked if you did any practices as merely sticking to reading, talking, and thinking is a bastardization of philosophy.
>>23352916I feel like the simpler refutation of theurgy is that it doesn't do what it claims to. Look at this, from Marinus' Life of Proclus:>XXVIII. ... Proclus proceeded step by step; first he was cleansed by the Chaldean purification; then he held converse, as he himself mentions in one of his works, with the luminous apparitions of Hecate which he conjured up himself; then he caused rain-falls by correctly moving the wryneckbird wheel, by this means he saved Athens from a severe drought. He proposed means to prevent earthquakes; he tested the divinatory power of the tripod; and even wrote verses about his own destiny ...What stands out are the claims: a) to summon visual apparitions of Hecate, b) save Athens from draught by summoning rain, c) being under the impression he could prevent earthquakes. These all go beyond the usual spiritual description of the power of theurgy, making claims about effects on the material world that can be seen and experienced by all. I would be shocked if a practitioner of theurgy could do any of this. (It also seems to damper the primarily spiritual understanding of theurgy, if Proclus thought these powers accompanied it.)
>>23352951>>23352966>Can you describe more about your specific practice, and what it is mainly about?Yes, absolutely.My practice was an attempted communion with the intelligences as described in Proclus' Elements of Theology. I used Iamblichus' On the Mysteries as a rough guidebook to find which rites were legitimate or false. Theurgy is the use of sensible signs to signify a non-sensible substance, or reality. Specifically, the invocation of and communication with intellective substances. Some of these rites are very much real. There will be strange experiences occurring after these rites or readings are performed. However, I must say that they are entirely demonic, really and truly. I speak from experience. The intelligences convoked by theurgy are malevolent. I know that sounds mad, but I'm completely genuine. Augustine was spot on with his warnings, as I said before. God alone is to be called upon and the benevolent intelligences refuse all attempts of convocation.
>>23353016This doesn't really surprise me. I was very interested in esoterica as a young man but I am glad I stayed with theory. In the end, I was blessed and came to realize early enough that the body and the mind are to be temples of the Holy Spirit. Nothing else can measure up to the completion of being one in Christ and in such a relationship one does not come with their own agenda.
>SOCRATES: [insert retarded analogy]>GLAUCON: You're quite right.>SOCRATES: [insert even more retarded analogy but now with authoritarian, pedophilic and misogynistic elements]>GLAUCON: Wow... I've never heard it be put this way.How did people eat this shit?
>>23352694The Greek philosphers are wrong about eveeyrging. But they have an interesting thought process and everyone else was dancing around a fire chanting unga bunga 2500 years ago and the greeks still mog everyone until the 19th century
>>23353419>>23353422I'm the only one citing the Republic at all while you kids are slap fighting.
Just say you got filtered, no need to be embarrassed, you'll understand it on a reread
>>23353435True. Plato and Aristotle were smart men who had important insights, but the 'tards on /lit/ cannot fathom the idea of the smart man being wrong. Hence the mindless worship in this thread.
>>23353435>>23353447Midwit posts. You weren't educated well enough to understand the Greeks. It's the truth.
Fuck Stoicism and their moralfaggotry. Why should the rich enjoy every pleasure at the expense of my suffering. Worse, my "duty" to have children so that they too can be slaves of the children of the rich. Enough of Stoic submissiveness. Give me the complete set of literature needed to become a disciple of Epicureanism?
>>23353412Because I am a former Stoic.( I did at the minimum read them, if anyone find my claim to being one as inappropriate).
>>23353414submissiveness comment*
>>23353346I see The Art of Happiness recommended here fairly often, Cambridge also released a compilation titled The Epicurus Reader as well. All of Epicurus's surviving offerings as well as Laertius and Lucretius are public domain and readily available but I have not actually noticed much difference in the translations.
Post books of Epicureanism?
>>23353461Thanks.
"Grandpa's story time" editionPrevious: >>23338313/wg/ AUTHORS & FLASH FICTION: https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQRESOURCES & RECOMMENDATIONS: https://pastebin.com/nFxdiQvCPlease limit excerpts to one post.Give advice as much as you receive it to the best of your ability.Follow prompts made below and discuss written works for practice; contribute and you shall receive.If you have not performed a cursory proofread, do not expect to be treated kindly. Edit your work for spelling and grammar before posting.Violent shills, relentless shill-spammers, and grounds keeping prose, should be ignored and reported.Simple guides on writing:>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHdzv1NfZRMComment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>23352198Option 2. If feedback unanimously says you have some serious problems you need to fix then the 2 months you spent writing the rest of the draft will be wasted since you'll just have to re-do it, probably from scratch, anyway. Plus you'll get your feedback a lot faster and can use it to plan or restructure the rest of your draft sooner.
>>23352848This is exactly why I talked about context and tension. In tow may also mean accompaniment--he is not alone in this dangerous journey-- and not necessarily pulling or following. Yes he had remembered that before, that's precisely what motivates him into the woods. Also, the inclusion of gods and nature is meant to show that the despite the sun shining--it being midday--the thicket is still darkening, unnaturally of course.
>>23351416If it's an adjective as strong as "blinding" then you should include your character in the sentence.
>>23353062>In tow may also mean accompaniment--he is not alone in this dangerous journey-- and not necessarily pulling or following.This is by metaphor with the literal meaning. When you use it for people it adds an involuntary flavor to it, person B is going along with person A wherever person A goes without any personal agency in the matter.If you use it in the literal sense it has to be literally true. If you use it in the figurative sense then you're bringing in that flavor which is unnecessary because it's fully implied by the kinds of objects they are.To get the flavor of accompaniment you could just say "accompanied by".>Yes he had remembered that before, that's precisely what motivates him into the woods.In that case, is "and smiled to himself" etcetera supposed to be past tense or past perfect? I'm finding it confusing.>Also, the inclusion of gods and nature is meant to show that the despite the sun shining--it being midday--the thicket is still darkening, unnaturally of course.I assumed he was passing into denser vegetation and things got darker for that reason.
My chapters are only about 1500 words long. I fear that's too short. But I don't want to pad them with meaningless text.
Will zoomer literature usher a right-wing cultural revolution and finally produce contemporary prose worth reading?
>>23352928Honor Levy. Here's the full article https://www.thecut.com/article/honor-levy-my-first-book-dimes-square-interview.html
>>23352815They have a better chance than millennials due to them not adopting the gay and irony poisoned millennial attitude but I doubt it.
>>23352829Tbf, the writer is an offshot of, and is being promoted by, the red scare/dimes square scene, which is basically millennial-style irony poisoning at its most vapid.
>>23352937>>23353218It does read bit like pomo mashup with Tao Lin-era navel gazing
>>23353006Right-Wing ≠ Traditional
What's some kino star trek books, bros?
>>23353404I haven’t read Stat Trek books since I was like 13. The best I recall are the ones they are adaptions of episodes. Descent is good. And the comedy ones involving either the Ferengi or Q. Q Squared is very funny, has both Q and Trelane
>>23353418Kino schizo post
>>23353407Star Trek is literally fascism and national socialism. Only fascist states created the post-class, organically socialist, and thus actually capable of post-scarcity/post-capitalist societies that Star Trek takes for granted. The Nazis founded modern green policies, the modern conception of the welfare state, everything. The Hitler Youth deliberately dissolved the old oligarchic and aristocratic caste system by having everybody take part in civic and charitable activities as part of one group, simply "Germans." Germany was basically a utopia in the '30s. Pic related, even the wives of world famous post-WW2 historians of fascism agree that it was basically utopia.
>>23353390Start with the Greeks.
>>23353390Picrel because most of Star Trek is based on Albanian history and culture. The utopia presented in it would have been actual reality if the ottoman empire did not impede Albanian progress in the 16th century.
You guys told me this was garbage, but it's actually extremely profound and mind liberating.
>>23348037Never forget, OP. The kind of industry overlord being attacked by the government in this piece is normally who's rigging the government to favour them and opress you. I bet the actual story is a competitor to the Taggarts that was smart enough to do exacly that and squash his opposition. Think about how Google, Microsoft, Facebook and others, that started as disrupting empreteneurships, keep their monopoly by rigging themselves to the government and you'll understand.
>>23353192you know that the book also condemn the type of cronies you talk about ?aslo that problem only arise from the government power and willingness to interfere in the market and it's willingness to demand lobby money to not fuck with your businesses
>>23353181It’s getting memed on here. Leonard Peikoff deserves more acclaim though.
>>23353362>you know that the book also condemn the type of cronies you talk about ?Of course it does, as it should. We don't live in a perfect world. The Taggarts still should have a cousin judge or a governor husband or something of the like. Because if they don't someone else will. Exibit 1: Yellowstone>>23353362>the government power and willingness to interfere in the market and it's willingness to demand lobby money to not fuck with your businessesMy guy, this only happens under demand. When government mafias come to extort you the best strategy is to co-opt them, not to bend over or fight. You'll know if it's to just extort or to destroy you to serve their cronies interests if they accept your co-option or not.>but that's corruptionYes, they can afford it. Honesty is for the worker class, not the burgeoise. Me too would rather live in a world where there's products with the best quality for the best price with no planned obsolescence. Also you'll not achieve this ideal in the long term without actual brutal violence applied judiciously, but we all know if that happens again the burgeoise will just co-opt it again.
>>23349615>support taxationOnly leeches died. There was zero casualty.
I was about to buy into the whole Jew hate thing but then I realized this guy was a Jew.
>>23353174Bobby Fischer isn't Jewish either...
>>23353340Spaniards are basically identical to Moors on a genetic level. their culture and Iberian architecture owes a debt to the Muslims. in Latin America those elements managed to create an independent culture influenced by but different from Spanish culture
>>23353356>Spaniards are basically identical to Moors on a genetic level.Debunked.
>>23353340This only happened in music and literature. They never lost their crown when it came to painters
>>23353403velazquez -- very good.but better than rembrandt?
>>23352304>the main character isn't likable!>>23352403>nothing important happens!>>23352475>it's not entertaining!Plotfags filteredIt's a good book, simple as
>>23352475>It's just a shit book not entertaining> judges a book by whether it's entertainingSorry there were no scenes of flaming swords and flying unicorns, anon
>>23352529I think the ending of the book is what I hate most. It just abruptly ends in a very anticlimactic way. >I'm leaving to get a fresh start >waaaahh no you aren't unless you take me>s-s-sorry never mind I'm not leaving I was just kiddingBook ends.
>>23351690It's pretty good.
Holden is the first genuine character ever created
So sick of the retarded overfixation on Sappho when there were plenty of other Greek poets who were better and whose poems actually survived . But she had a vagina and was gay so she's SO AMAZING. Most of Sappho's "poems" are just like >the tree....green...heart...eagle...featherAnd feminists really try to claim she was the greatest poet ever lol. Nowadays, nobody outside of classics programs knows who Pindar, Simonides, Alcaeus, Alcman, Theognis, etc. etc. are when they used to be venerated just as much or more than Sappho and are more interesting. Even Aeschylus and Sophocles (apart from Agamemnon and Antigone respectively) are ignored in favor of Euripides who portrayed strong female kweens.
>>23351705>The kweens of Euripides are some of the greatest display of misogyny.Aristophanes agreed but I don't think modern readers take them that way
>>23351904Poetry was a competitive sport amongst the greeks and the judges who picked the winner were all men. She couldn’t write poetry about loving getting railed by achilles because she would lose every time
>>23350504>and was gaydisputed
it should be called the Hypatia syndrome.
>>23351705>all intents and purposesWe are talking about poetry here. Quality > quantity.
