Which was better?
The 00 movie is conceptually interesting, has real consequences, and was a perfect thematic conclusion to the show.The characters are a bit lacking there though because all of them completed their arcs in the series.SEED Freedom was enjoyable, I think it has some great writing when it comes to showing the growth of Kira and Shinn, but a lot of the other characters got sidelined HARD. It's also a very fanservice heavy movie(I don't mean sexual fanservice), which is fine for the moment, but I don't think it will age well. The CG is off-putting, and it seems like the main conflict was basically just a soft retread of Destiny.
Sadly, the one with more hand-drawn mecha.
>>22626706The latter because it's recent, uses superior CG over shitty drawing, and is the best Gundam universe that trumps even double blow./thread.
They both reflects the strengths and weaknesses of their respective series for me.00 is probably better at actually making some attempt at exploring/doing new things with its scifi elements, but SEED is better at having a clear narrative throughline and lots of fanservice.Speaking of the scifi elements, it feels like the world of SEED barely matters at this point. For example Naturals vs Coordinators seems completely skin deep at this point, replaced by Coordinators vs Accords in the movie (because possibly unintentionally, basically everyone doing stuff in Lacus's faction is a Coordinator aside from Mu), which might be a clever turnaround if it didn't just come off as the Coordinators killing off the biggest threat to their superiority while talking about how wrong genetic determinism is.
>>22626759>replaced by Coordinators vs Accords in the movieDid you miss the ZAFT coup d'etat and the Coordinator support for the Destiny Plan?>aside from MuAdd him to the list, since he has Newtype powers.
>>22626706Awakening of the Trailblazer is a bad ripoff of GaoGaiGar with pretentious preaching about understanding, so SEED Freedom.
>>22626759>Speaking of the scifi elements, it feels like the world of SEED barely matters at this point. Yeah it's a shame that SEED basically drops any serious investigation of its sci-fi ideas after the first series, because the coordinators were a really interesting concept and the series barely scratches the surface on them.I wouldn't mind a future AU revisiting the idea.
Easily SEED Freedom. The BEST Gundam Movie ever. I'm not even memeing.
00
>>22627038cringe spongebob 00 user
>>22627038>>22627038>goes deeper into Setsuna's characterMakes him into an even bigger space jesus than Kira>new good gundam designsS1 gundams had much better designs.>Tieria getting some character developmentNothing memorable outside of him crossdressing and "dying".>Lockon getting his revengeLyle was a cheap replacement and Ali should've died in S1>Nene got what she deservedOnly for Louise to become new worst girl>best gundam fight and most satisfying ending in all of gundamCheap fanservice fight and the finale was overwritten by a mediocre movie.
>>22626820>Because the Coordinators were a really interesting concept and the series barely scratches the surface on them.Given the bits that we know about Coordinators and their sterility issues there is a good chance they will eventually reach a "dead end" of sorts and will either re-integrate with Naturals willingly or otherwise, or die out since they cannot SCIENCE their way out of the problem and are too stubborn to swallow their pride.
>>2262670600 is the better show and AoT is the more consistent movie for building on a good show. However, SEED Freedom does much more to improve Kira, Lacus, and Shinn as characters than AoT does for Setsuna or anyone else in its setting.
>>22627365>Makes him into an even bigger space jesus than KiraThis isn't a negative thing and you don't seem to fully understand why that criticism works for Kira and not Setsuna. There is nothing inherently wrong with a character being a "jesus'' figure.There's a difference between a story which intentionally seeks to create a savior figure as in 00 where religion is a core idea in its writing and Setsuna becoming a savior falls in line with many of its ideas versus SEED which in its text tries to avoid that, but ends up falling into it due to a lack of oversight.I think the fact that you misunderstand this means the rest of your criticism is likely just as ill-formed.
>>22626730I don't think the movie is going to age poorly it's not following the zeitgeist at all in the first place, it's very inline with how SEED was 20 years ago and was meant to come out not long after Destiny. As for the conflict basically being the same as Destiny it does a great job at showing the problems of the Destiny plan and what it would really entail.
>you live long enough to see /m/ become the SEED boardHe's truly unstoppable.
>>2262670600 by a mile. It's not even a contest. The plot, characters, designs is on a whole other level.SEED F is more "fun" though and knew exactly what to give it's rabid fanbase and then some.
>>22627424/m/ literally exists because of SEED. It's always been a SEED board.
>>22627038cringe as fuck. kys, 00tard
>>22627441This was disproven like a decade ago or so and yet some people still push this lie.
>>22627410>I don't think the movie is going to age poorly it's not following the zeitgeist at all in the first placeIt is though, the nostalgia for SEED is just a trend right now because the series is 20 years old and the people who watched it as kids/teens are looking back on it.The movie has a lot of callbacks and basically functions like a Gundam SEED version of the Code Geass movie or Avengers Endgame.Its success is running off hype and nostalgia, but I think years from now someone watching the SEED saga for the first time will look back and not really see anything too substantial.>it does a great job at showing the problems of the Destiny plan and what it would really entail.This was already done in Destiny. They don't add any new insight in this film we didn't already know.
>>22626706I still have to see the Seed movie, but based on the series alone, 00 > Seed
>>2262670600 and it isn't even close. I'm still mad that Descartes was killed off so fast despite a fair bit of promo material pretending he was important, and Tieria is thoroughly wasted, but I would take that any day over more nugenix bullshit out of Seed.
>>22627038Season 2 was never bad
>>22629441
>>22627519>DescartesHe should've been a much more prominent character.I feel like the movie could've had another subplot with him and Setsuna both being Innovators but butting heads about how to deal with the ELS.Like a final battle where Setsuna tries to reach the core to do the qunatum burst while also fighting Descartes who is trying to annihilate the ELS.
>>22629467>while also fighting Descartes who is trying to annihilate the ELSwell that might be kinda weird because EVERYONE else including Al and Lyle and Sumeragi and the ESF were fighting the ELS so if Setsuna was gonna attack Shaman just for fighting the ELS then it sounds stupid
>>22629481Have it take place inside the planet after Graham sacrifices himself to make the opening. Setsuna and Descartes are sent to deal the final blow and blocked off from everyone else, ESF's goal is total annihilation, but Setsuna believes there's another way due to his earlier contact with the ELS.Descartes fights him over this.
Can some someone explain what the "We are GUNDAM" line actually means in context? It sounds like such a fucking stupid line that I cant imagine making it sense, from what Ive seen Im worried about watching OO and finding out its just some Robot Battle Anime.Its not like Amuro talking about "The Gundams Power" or Usso shouting out "Climb to the Heavens, Gundam!" as a plea to their machine and symbol of hope to help them achieve Victory in a moment of desperation, "We are gUNDAM" sounds so fucking stupid, Gundam is just a name, it doesnt have any profound meaning on its own.
>>22634531When Setsuna says "I am a Gundam" it's in reference to what the gundams represent in Anno Domini, which is to say an end to war, and once the revelation of what excessive GN particle expossure does to humans the phrase "I am a Gundam" transforms into "I am someone that can change the world/myself", so by saying "We are Gundam" Setsuna is declaring that "We have changed/are changing"At least, that's a basic interpretation
Freedom’s last scenes Better.
>>22634531Setsuna views Gundam not just as a machine, but an ideology/religion.He is essentially a Gundam Jihadist fighting a holy war for Gundam.
>>22629467>I feel like the movie could've had another subplot with him and Setsuna both being Innovators but butting heads about how to deal with the ELS.There's definitely a remnant of that idea in the movie, but it's a bit of a stretch to consider it so since Setsuna never actually meets Descartes and he doesn't have that switch to "muh understanding" mode until after he comes out of his coma.
>>22636618Instead of killing him off, they should've had Descartes be the only survivor of the ESF expeditionary force that is sent out to contact the ELS. He loses people he cares about in that attack and wants revenge on the ELS.After the pick him up he aids CB in their initial attempt to attack the ELS and comes aboard the Ptolemais to refuel after the battle where Setsuna is put into a coma. He joins them on their trip back to the Earth sphere.Along the way he interacts with the crew and they notice despite being an innovator he's very different from Setsuna.Descartes has innovator communication with Setsuna in his coma and they talk about how to approach the ELS, Descartes wants Setsuna to help him wipe them out, but Setsuna remarks that maybe there's another way.At this point there isn't any animosity between the two.Movie basically continues as is until the final battle. While Setsuna is still in the Coma Descartes launches in his Unit and fights the ELS along with the CB Gundams. Setsuna wakes up from the coma and launches. Then everything proceeds and >>22629555 happens. Descartes is either killed by Setsuna, or the ELS during the battle.Then Setsuna does quantum burst and the movie continues as is.
>>22634531He was a child soldier and during one failed operation, cb intervenes and a gundam saved his life. Note that setsuna was like 15 in the first season and genuinely mentally handicapped
>>22627365>Makes him into an even bigger space jesus than KiraNo, it fucking doesn't. The fuck?
>>22627038Based. Season 2 was better.
>>22627470>This was already done in Destiny. They don't add any new insight in this film we didn't already know.I'd say it definitely does with the Accords, who are a great example of what people raised in the Destiny Plan at the very top of genetics would be like, and they're a bunch of arrogant sociopaths high on their own farts that think the lessers are beneath them and want to rule everybody because their genes say so and they've been raised their whole lives with Aura preaching about the power of their genes. So it just effectively created another Logos type group, except instead of being above everyone else because of their money they were above everyone else because of their genes. So it proves without a doubt that the Destiny Plan will never bring total peace, at least not long term because it will eventually just create another group of oppressors with no empathy for who they see as others, just with the shoe on the other foot this time. All this had been speculated for years, but the movie conclusively proves it. In effect it should put to rest the 20 year debate on whether Durandal was right or wrong, and the answer was he was wrong. At least for rational people, as there's still at least one vehement Kira and Lacus hater who insists Foundation are really the good guys.
>>22627519>>22629467I'm pretty sure he was always just a misdisrect to try to make the trailers seem like there was gonna be an actual face bad guy of the film and not just a bunch of metal blobs that never speak. Same reason they showed off the ELS Ribbons clone who lasts about 30 seconds in the film.
>>22627034This.
>>22627034NOT THIS
>>22626759>>22626775Seems like Murrue and Neumann were forgotten. They're 100% Naturals too, you know, alongside Cagalli, Miriallia, Sai, and some of the others working officially or unofficially alongside Lacus.
>>22627470Considering the staff themselves were shocked by how many new and young fans they've seen show up for the movie meant for older fans, some who haven't even watched SEED before according to some interviews done with early showings, I think you're in denial. For better or worse, SEED Freedom has proven itself legitimately successful. Successful enough to get Bandai to reconsider expanding upon select successful AUs and fleshing them out much like they did UC.
>>22638023>Successful enough to get Bandai to reconsider expanding upon select successful AUs and fleshing them out much like they did UC.They were already doing that for years prior to this with Wing, SEED and 00.
>>2262670600 Gundam had the issue of Innovades being able to change their gender and falling in love with humans. Even though they can't give birth or have children.Seed Freedom has the issue of incest. Since the Black Knights are siblings and Ingrid falls in love with her brother Orphee.
>>22626706The show itself is like comparing Apples and Oranges. Both are completely different and appropriate to the IP they represent. But what i can compare is the battle scenes. And 00 had better battle scenes. The final battle with the ELS is more exciting and exhilarating to me.
>>22638053Not with animation though; they explicitly mention expanding AUs with new animation.
>>2262670600 has the advantage of giving an actual conclusion, but I dislike the way the themes were handled. A war where everyone battles mindless flying nails is not exciting to see. The main mobile suit appearing at the end just to open a portal and be gone is not exciting to see. So I found FREEDOM way more consistent and fun.
>>2262670600 was only good when it was inverting UC tropes, which it stopped doing at the end of S2. Trailblazer then goes in the complete opposite direction and ruins what 00 had going for it. One of the most infuriating movies I've seen.SEED Freedom is rushed and a little too comedic, but is otherwise good.
>>22626706Trialblazer would've been better as it's own season instead of a movie. It ends up being the same as S2, wasted potential.S.Freedom is sloppy, but it know what it is and embraces it. After what happened with Destiny, it's definitely an improvementSo yeah, I have to go with S.Freedom.
>>22640344>wasted potential.how? The premise of the movie wouldn't last a season
>>22627038Nene did nothing wrong though.
>>22640366It very well could've been. It could've returned to the tense atmosphere the 1st season had while giving more time to lay out the groundwork for the innovator vs human wars and implementing some of the ideas they apparently have for the next project. It was a huge missed opportunity that we didnt get to see how they actually dealt with getting people where they needed to be but biggest of all, it would have given time to show Setsuna being brain damaged for longer than a second and wouldve given him an opportunity to recover sooner than the literal last minute. I like the movie but it could have been so much more than it was.
>>22627038Based as fuck, love yourself 00 enjoyer
>>22627038>Does away with the political background plot and mystery the first season was building up>Mister Bushido has absolutely nothing to do but fly in, fight Setsuna, then fly away and no motivation to do it>Despite being revealed to the world, having their secrets and technology leaked, hunted by the world government, and having their flagship destroyed, Celestial Being's underdog status and severe lack of finance and resources is no longer a major plot point>Setsuna's crisis of faith and coping with past trauma are easily solved by him becoming a magic superman>Marina's arc about trying to lead a country in the midst of a religious upheaval and her having played a part in the war Setsuna fought in as a child is dropped early on so she can play with kids for the rest of the show>After Wang Liu Mei's role of the Gundam Meister's financial and information support ended in the first season, she spends the entire 2nd season standing around doing nothing and then dies>Allelujah goes from balancing a personality crisis with having killed his fellow super soldiers before he was even old enough to drink in S1, to having a stock "My Cyber Newtype waifu keeps trying to kill me, maybe if I yell her name enough times she'll decide to stop" Gundam character arc>Saji Crossroad's arc of the first season of being a regular civilian who has everything taken away from him by the horrors of war, thanks to Setsuna and co. Is angry for maybe one episode and then forgives Setsuna and hangs around the ship doing nothing important aside from also yelling the name of the other Cyber Newtype waifu in hopes she'll stop trying to kill him>Lyle Dylandy starts off S2 with a pretty decent first showing about how he's not Lockon, Feldt shouldn't expect him to be like Lockon, but then after that proceeds to just be basically the exact same as Lockon, except now he also has yet another Cyber Newtype waifu who betrays him and he has to yell her name so she stops trying to kill him
>>22626706G-Witch did it better than both.
I am better than both. Why the fuck do we even discuss shitters like these when we could be talking about me and my interesting life instead?
>>22640479Everything about the series would have been 1000x more enjoyable had Setsuna gotten with Feltd by the end.
>>22640531at least try.
>>22627038Based
>>22626706Shin Eva
Gundam SEED (not Destiny) is my favorite anime ever, but FREEDOM is arguably the worst sequel of all time, it has no respect for its characters or setting, it's just riding on nostalgia and festival feeling of the theatre experience.It was sold as a love story between Kira and Lacus but they hardly interact or learn new stuff about each other, the movie ends with them loving each other and not wanting to fight, just like at the start of Destiny or the movie itself. It just uses cheap drama to create tension and the only way it creates the drama is by making Lacus act like an out of character retard for 1 hour of the movie.Athrun gets like 3 scenes and is someone with 0 personality, people complained about Shinn being "Kira's puppy" but I felt he's probably the better one of the three in the movie and he's definitely my least favorite in the series, his scenes are fun and he can back up his talk instead of being a whiny idiot.The Accords were a waste of screentime, nothing is explained about them, none of them have personality, Fukuda even admits he didn't think about anything and it shows.Durandal at 18 looks the same as he did at 32 and was already wearing his chairman attire for some reason.
>>22627038Season 2 gives more screentime to this annoying faggot. So it's worse by default.
>>22646669So basically...it's a garbage marvel movie.. instead of an anime Gundam film.
>>22640546I disagree. Setsuna is fucking based for staying locked in on the mission instead of chasing pussy like every single gundam protag, so we don't have to suffer cringe teen romance(side cast do this job pretty well anyway).
>>22650878That's a fare point. But would've he made him more fun and interesting during his end point if he did slay at least once.
>>2264054I can't disagree. Don't know why him and the princess chick lost track and interest in each other in the end
